Yep, them too, don't tell anyone about their hacks.

(I mean, "More about governments than organized crime? There's a difference?")

You should pay a visit to Sicily or Naples if you don't think there's a difference.

And I hope none of us ever pay a visit to Guantanamo.

But seriously, yeah, of course there's a difference, but government is also often in league with organized crime, from local levels of corrupt cops and drug leaders, to international levels of the CIA and arms traders and 'our' 'freedom fighers' -- I bet this is also true in Sicily and Naples, that many parts of the government act in league with organized crime.

But yeah, to go back to the actual topic/thread, mainly, I think the guy is right that the government is the other main actor which is going to keep it's security exploits to itself, and just use them to monitor you silently. (And that's probably more likely in the US than any other country on the planet, at the moment).

I'd generally prefer government to organized crime, but would probably take the Yakuza over NK or Belarus or wherever.

So you're comparing what might be the "best" of something in one category with some of the dregs in another.

Italy is not known for having particularly good politicians or government, but I'd take the government here any day over the Mafia or Camorra. Despite any romanticized movies you may have seen, those guys are pretty cold-blooded SOB's. Recently, a man was shot dead waiting to pick his son up from pre-school in Naples.

You mean, how much did the 'mole' see/hear/do before getting booted from HTP?

No, that's not what I mean. What I mean are things like the Chinese government hacking Google and the New York Times, not HTP hacking some IRC provider for revenge.

Let me be more clear. You mean, like employees or contractors under the direction of the FBI hacking sites, at least Linode, while 'investigating' HTP?

Honestly, the two are very often synonymous.